Fantasyland
Anyone who thought, as The Economist and others have reported, that Serbia was softening its position on Kosovo and would yield to sweet reason has to be disappointed today. The Belgrade platform for negotiations on Kosovo represents a giant step backwards in Serbia’s position, as it pretends to meet international community demands for dismantling of illegal Serbian institutions in Kosovo by legalizing and unifying them, with the entire “autonomous” province under Serbian sovereignty. Serbs in Kosovo would gain not only separate and equal institutions, but also a legislative veto, their own justice and police systems and many other powers. This would apply not only to the northern bit of Kosovo still under Serbian control, but also south of the Ibar river to communities that have at least partially accepted and integrated into Kosovo government institutions.
What Belgrade has failed to do is come to terms with the independence and sovereignty of Kosovo. This is not surprising, but it is still important: it means that Kosovo will need to equip itself for a future in which Serbia continues to claim sovereignty over the entire territory. I don’t envy Pristina. To my knowledge, no two countries that fail to recognize each other and establish a clearly demarcated border have an untroubled relationship. Serbia is Kosovo’s most powerful and threatening neighbor, its largest potential market and its historical metropole. Good neighborly relations would be a big plus for Kosovo. It isn’t going to happen based on the platform Belgrade has written for itself.
Belgrade has also failed to apply a simple but critical equity test to its own propositions: how much of what it proposes would it be ready and willing to offer to Albanians in southern Serbia or Bosniaks in Sandjak? Almost none of it. It is profoundly sad, and risible, that Belgrade claims for Serbs who have left Kosovo (including their descendants) the right to return when such rights have been blatantly violated by Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I’ve heard few in Belgrade bemoaning that (I hasten to add that those few are wonderful people).
International community reaction at this point is important. There will be an enormous temptation for the European Union and the United States, having waited long for this platform and no doubt tried to influence its contents, to try to see at least parts of it in a favorable light, or at least as a basis for negotiation. That would be a mistake. This platform stops just short of a declaration of war on Kosovo’s institutions and on the international community’s at least partially successful efforts to build a democracy in Kosovo. There is precious little in it that I would advise Pristina to discuss. Washington and Brussels should be profoundly disappointed and say so.
So what now? Belgrade is unhappy with the technical talks that it pursued with Pristina for more than a year, as they view them as having encroached on political issues. They are correct. While Belgrade celebrated each and every agreement as a Serbian triumph, the technical talks were gradually establishing Belgrade and Pristina as equal negotiating partners. That was the intention in both Brussels and Washington. But the talks were also reaching the limit of what could be achieved without deciding on Kosovo’s status: is it an autonomous province of Serbia, as Belgrade continues to want to claim, or is it a sovereign state, as half the UN General Assembly now recognizes? There really is no doubt about the answer to this question, but the EU has to tiptoe around it because of its five members who don’t recognize Kosovo.
Pristina should of course continue to be willing to meet with Belgrade on an equal basis and expect all agendas to be reciprocal in both letter and spirit. If Belgrade wants to discuss governance in northern Kosovo, it has to be willing to discuss governance in southern Serbia. That’s a non-starter, so there is no need for Pristina to discuss Kosovo’s own internal political arrangements with Belgrade. They are spelled out clearly in the Ahtisaari plan for a Comprehensive Peace Settlement that both the EU and the U.S. adhere to. Pristina has shown good faith in trying to implement them.
A note to non-recognizers of Kosovo: if you thought that your non-recognition was in any way helping to soften Belgrade’s stance or promote a negotiated solution, Belgrade’s platform for the negotiations should be enough to convince you otherwise. The best possible response to this gross overreach is to recognize and establish diplomatic relations with Pristina.
A note to Albanians: I can well imagine how angry this Serbian document will make those of you who have worked hard to establish serious democratic institutions capable of treating Serbs and other minorities correctly. The right response is a peaceful one, no matter how strong the passions. Anything else will play into Belgrade’s narrative that the Balkans won’t be safe from violence if Kosovo is sovereign and independent.
A note to Serbs: Kosovo is lost to Belgrade’s sovereignty. Protection of Serbs in Kosovo is still a legitimate interest. That’s what the talks with Pristina should be about, not about Kosovo’s status, which has been decided in a political process foreseen in UN Security Council resolution 1244. You did not like the result, but that will not change it. You can block UN membership for Kosovo, but it would be a mistake to try to change the facts on the ground. The effort to ensure that Serbs are governed only by Serbian majorities on their own territory has led Belgrade into war several times in the past. It is a profound error to stick with it. Go visit Kosovo: see for yourselves the reality. Then come back and tell me whether you want to continue living in Fantasyland.
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Splendid. What more could you expect from the heirs of Milosevic and Seselj!
So tell me please, what do you want Serbia to offer to Kosovo Albanians? Part of its land wrapped up as a gift? Why would Serbia do anything for Kosovo Albanians, and if I recall right Kosovo will not become UN member, member of Fifa, will not have telephone country code, and list goes on, if Serbia is against that. If Kosovo Albanians have right not to live under Serbian rule, what is so wrong about Kosovo Serbs not having to live under Albanian rule?
Serbia was not asked to offer something to Kosovo but accept the reality of Kosovo independence if still wishes to join EU. Serbia can’t ask 100 times more rights for 120K of Serbs than 400K of Hungarians for example. So let first see how Serbia is giving these Cataloinan rights to Hungarians in Vojvodina, Bosniaks in Sandjak, Albainas in Presevo, Bujanovac, Medvedja and will see for Serbs in Kosovo.
As for telephone code, FIFA and so on, Kosovo will have them even without Serbia and you will see that in a few months/years. Even for Kosovo membership to UN, as of yesterday, with recognition of very important state Pakistan, Kosovo is recognized from 98 UN members or enough to ask for status of STATE observer at UN. I recall that Switzerland had such status till 2002. It will be important for Kosovo to have a status of STATE at UN and other steps will follow.
1st you are wrong about Switzerland, look that up, no time to explain the difference between UN member state, and other forms. 2nd there are 250 000 Hungarians in Serbia, and they have far more rights then any other minority in Europe. I live in Novi Sad, so I know. However Serbia has been recognized as state in current borders since WWI, unlike Kosovo. If Kosovo does not need Serbia for anything, fine, do not bug us to negotiate with you and you try to get into UN, FIFA, get telephone code and everything else on your own. Serbia is blackmailed with EU membership, that is true we do need better relations with Kosovo in order to become EU member, but Kosovo needs to get into UN, FIFA, and even EU. None of that can’t be done without agreement with Serbia. Serbia can’t get into EU for another 10 years anyway so we are in no rush.
Serbs have succeeded to turn the tables, make themselves the victims as they have always done throughout history. EU is appeasing and lethargic. It’s up to US to shake out of this lull both EU and Serbs. Albanians don’t have to negotiate with a country that doesn’t recognize them as their own entity. EU thinks everything is fine as long as Belgrade and Pristina are on the same table. EU is happy with their head buried in the sand.
By the way, it wasn’t that hard to be victims. The number of Serbs in all republics of ex Yugoslavia and Kosov is almost statistic failure.
I’m sorry Alex but weren’t the Serbs responsible for undoing of Yugoslavia? They didn’t want equality, they wanted domination. What would you expect after the ugly wars? We’re humans not saints.
Says who? CNN? Daniel Serwer? BBC? Bill Clinton? Other “mainstream” (read – only Serbs are guilty)sources for those ideas? Read “Fools crusade”, by Diana Johnstone. There are other book too…
Says who? Was Croatia and Slovenia who attacked Serbia or the other way around? Ddidn’t Serbia use the Yugoslavian army to crash it’s own republiks? Wasn’t Milosevic refusing to step down in the rotation of presidents?
Albo,
No,before attacking Croatia Croatians had to kill 700 thousand Serbs in WWII and almost 250 thousand fled Croatia even before war started in 1990/91… other than that I cant think of any better reason to enter the war
hahahaha if know anything about Croatian history, you have to know they always wanted independent state, Yugoslavia was just another stop before independence. Serbs were the only ones that wanted to keep Yugoslavia together, they didn’t want to dominate as you say, but rather to stop the breaking of it.
It may be too early to despair (and for Thaci to start celebrating) – the draft of this agreed position among the Serbian governing factions was circulated among the foreign ambassadors for their reaction before being shown to the opposition. The public will get to see it only after the government has been forced to pull back by despised interfering outsiders. Just how serious could any Serbian government be, after all, about a plan they trumpet as “a Republika Srpska” for Kosovo”? The public will learn of its final provisions someday soon – after the government has been compelled by force majeure to renounce the most ridiculous measures by the EU (and the U.S., if it’s still paying attention, but if the State Department doesn’t protect its own people, what can the Kosovars expect?)
American politicians are – if only temporarily – taking a lesson in courage from those schoolteachers in Newton and finally confronting a politically potent foe to do their duty. The politicians in Belgrade still hope to escape the fury of what they’ve built up as a dangerous force by finding someone to blame for doing what has to be done. Or, alternatively, they’re utterly delusional.
(Note that in Prishtina, where the politicians in government have recent experience in dealing with men armed not only with rifles but with tanks, the government came out early and hard against an attempt at mob rule.)
The platform, such as it is, really looks like a step backward, but is not necessarily so. I don’t think it’s Belgrade’s definitive position, simply because Serbia is in no situation to impose anything on anyone. I am more inclined to assume the current version of platform is intended to serve two purposes: first, as a trial balloon for Serbia’s domestic public, especially hard-line nationalits and the enormously influential Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC), which has already reacted very aggressively to Dačić’s flexibility in negotiations with Mr. Thaci; and secondly, to strengthen Belgrade’s position prior to the next round of the talks. Thus, I wouldn’t bet that Belgrade will stubbornly insist on the platform as the process continues; I rather see it as a short-term tactic. Of course, this is just an assumption which, like any assumption, may well prove wrong, but let’s hope I am right.
According to an interview with Rasim Ljajic in tonight’s B92, your assumption hits the nail on the head – he says they expect to amend the plan, taking the international response into effect.
And as for the Kosovars being abandoned by Washington, maybe there’s no need to panic – Eliot Engel, D-NY and patron saint of the Albanian nation, it turns out is to be the new Ranking Member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
The platform really looks dead platform on a piece of paper and it kills further negotiating between Belgrade and Pristine and you me and everyone else can commentate on an not realistically offered platform and it should not be done to please Serbian Orthodox Church hard-line and ultra nationalist as it proved on a past that they are the source of all problems in YU and Serbia it should a been done to please facts on a ground and for long lasting peace
Among other mistakes in Serbian Politics are that Serbian Orthodox Church is not separated from State politics steal playing major part in alliance with hard-line and ultra nationalist. This platform really shows immaturity of Serbian politicians is in every step on resolving any conflict.
“Pristina has shown good faith in trying to implement them.” Not true. The government has not been honest and desires to implement only the “Status” parts of the plan, while avoiding to ensure the minority protection rights prescribed in it.
Today we see the first reaction from Vojvodina (northern province of Serbia) so Hungarian parties asked for more autonomy.
This is indeed a fantasyland. An opposition leader Draskovic said few ago that Serbs are risking as with famous plan Z4 for Serbs i Croatia. Asking too much, Serbs may win nothing, as it happened in Croatia.
I’m not even Serbian, but your address to the Serbs is hypocritical at best. The fantasyland you keep bringing up is on par with Kosovo’s “ambitions towards the EU and NATO”, which will not happen in the near future, not because of Serbian meddling, as is the usual implication, but because Kosovo doesn’t even remotely represent a sovereign, peaceful and democratic state. The Serbs wish to stick with Serbia, be allowed to travel freely with their passport, and not have questionable ex-KLA members as their representatives. I see very little wrong with that.
You do not seem to understand that there is virtually no protection of Serbs in Kosovo… they are either all gone, or are cooked up in enclaves and isolated villages. How this fact goes over your heads still never fails to amaze me. The very thing Milosevic tried to do with the Albanians in 1999, the Albanians did to the Serbs, and they’re proud of it.
The people of Kosovo get to defend their country, and yet Serbia has to sit down and take it? I’m sorry, but that’s not how international diplomacy works. If Serbia wants to waste it’s time defending Kosovo, it has every right to do so, no matter how futile you think it is, and no matter how your feelings are hurt. The recent EU messages Serbia has been getting will most likely even strengthen Serbia’s resistance.
Also, since you like to cite from the UNSC, this is from one annex of the 1244 resolution:
After withdrawal, an agreed number of Yugoslav and Serbian personnel will be permitted to return to perform the following functions:
Liaison with the international civil mission and the international security presence;
Marking/clearing minefields;
Maintaining a presence at Serb patrimonial sites;
Maintaining a presence at key border crossings.
I see no such things implemented, do you?
I would also like to mention the kitsch surrounding Kosovo politics, and the absolutely weird nationalist tendencies on Kosovo:
– The Kosovo flag is obviously not the flag of the Kosovo people, but instead the Albanian flag is waved
– Recently the US ambassador in Tirana had to issue a statement that condemned the “greater Albania” speeches made by certain high ranking officials, and the President of Albania. Greek and Macedonian officials were extremely displeased.
– Ramush Haradinaj was greeted in Pristina with the utmost honors. Yet, acquitted Serbs who arrived from the Hague only got a 10 second news slot, not a carnival welcome.
-If a statue of Putin were to be erected in Belgrade, I’m sure there would be public humiliation involved, and rightly so. However, a Bill Clinton statue (a statue of a living person) in the middle of Pristina is perfectly fine.
Kosovo is not a young democracy, it’s merely a young country, and unfortunately it’s still in the early stages of implementing rule of law, an economy which doesn’t rely on ex-Yugoslavia age factories, respect towards others, and human rights for all.
Is there some sort of an intelligentsia present in Kosovo to speak out, please?
You know not of what you speak. Serbs are hardly cooked (sic) up in their villages. They drive all over, all theme. You are either out of date by about 12 years, a dupe of Serb propaganda or yourself a propagandist. I suggest it’s time for you to get real one way or the other.
When confronted, you call me a Serb propagandist, and you also tell me to “get real”.
Hard facts are just pouring out of your claims, it seems…
You say: I would also like to mention the kitsch surrounding Kosovo politics, and the absolutely weird nationalist tendencies on Kosovo:
– The Kosovo flag is obviously not the flag of the Kosovo people, but instead the Albanian flag is waved
That flag was forced upon them. It’s as foreign as it can get. If you’re not aware Albanians no matter where they are have one flag. Didn’t the two German States have the same flag? Why would you be so surprised about Kosovars waving the right flag? Don’t the Serbs of Kosova wave Serbian flags?
Kosova was the cradle of Albanian struggle for independence, and the red and black flag has been prominent in those lands ever since. There isn’t such a thing as Greater Albania, but Ethnic Albania. You seem to be knowledgeable about the history of the region, then you should be aware how most of Albanians remained outside of the Albanian political borders. Is there any other country that is surrounded by it’s own people? You can get a better understanding reading Wadham Peacock’s ” Albania the foundling state of Europe”.
How about Hungary? Mexico? Luxembourg? This (for some reason) may surprise you, but border regions are usually ethnically mixed.
You’re also not the only people in the world with a larger diaspora. The futile efforts to romanticize the “Albanian cause” is no better than what the Serbs did in the 90s.
I also fail to see how you can call yourselves a country when you can’t even agree about the flag which represents you all.
And, by the way, this is still actual
http://www.start.umd.edu/start/data_collections/tops/terrorist_organization_profile.asp?id=3517
“when such rights have been blatantly violated by Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina.”
Interesting that the rights of Serbs in Albania proper have not been mentioned. Since 1935. the Serbs in Albania have been stripped of their names and forced to change them to Albanian ones. Even today, the Serbs in Albania are not recognised as a ethnic minority. Which is in stark contrast to the status of Albanians in Serbia. Not even considering the status of Albanians had in Kosovo and Methohija prior to the 1999. war.
I have first hand knowledge of this, being Albanian and having my father’s cousin married to an Albanian-Serb. Her last name is very slavic and she didn’t need to hide her ethnicity.
Ok, all of this is little too much. I can agree that Albanians were very successful in the “battle” to get Kosovo. Good, there are plenty of them and I wouldn’t like to see any election in Serbia where Albanians vote. It would be a disaster. So, as much as I concern, build the wall, like in China and finish with that. There’s only one thing that bothers me in the whole story. Why “west” NEVER intervene and it will NEVER intervene in Tibet? Why the situation in Kosovo and Tibet is so different? Why west NEVER intervene and it will never intervene in South Ossetia? Again, what is so different between Kosovo ans South Ossetia? Is that maybe because is not that healthy to play games with China and Russia? To big to swallow? My God, there’s hypocrites in the “west”… Read, at least sometimes, what some other people has to say. For example, read “Fools crusade” by Diana Johnstone. Just that. It is never just black or white.
Alex you agree the intervention of the West on Kosovo was needed, acording to what you say.
It was a war against Serbian people without approval from UN and, actually, Madeleine Albright admitted that it was the intention, because they knew that Russia and China wouldn’t allow that. I am the wrong person to discuses with. I am the one who is happy to see Mladic in jail, I think that everyone who were guilty for war crimes should rotten in jail, I am not defending criminals among Serbs and I am not the one who would say that Mladic, Karadzic and similar like them are heroes. But, I can not accept that only Serbs are guilty for everything and that only Serbs committed crimes. What ever “Experts” from “west” countries claim, that was civil war. There are no innocent!
None of the deals made in Balkans since 1991 were in Serbs favor, and international community changed the rules and principles each time. First Serbia and all of the Yugoslav republics were allowed to separate from Yugoslavia without changing the borders. That was the worst for Serbs who did not only live in Serbia, but were also majority in at least 60% of Bosnia, and 30% of Croatia. Ok that was the deal, until international community allowed part of Serbia to brake off, unlike part of Bosnia or Croatia. Now when Serbia is asking that Kosovo changes its borders so 10% of it, that is populated 100% with Serbs remains in Serbia, Int. Community is against changing borders again. No principles, no rules, just rule of the strongest, and unfortunately for us Serbs, that is USA and Germany. To me as a Serb, his platform is a treachery.
The rules stayed the same – Croatia and the rest kept the borders they had within Yugoslavia, and Kosovo will do the same. Blame Tito if you don’t like the fact that part of Raska was given to Kosovo to increase the number of Serbs living in the province. Or blame the Turks for scattering communities of Serbs throughout the Balkans.
Nope, the deal was borders of republics will remain the same. Kosovo was just a province within republic of Serbia. BIG difference. Why the Serbian province in Bosnia is not allowed to separate from Bosnia?
I think you should read carefully Yugoslav Constitution of 1974, which says that Kosovo was one of EIGHT constituent parts of Yugoslavia. There were EIGHT (not six) members of YU presidency and there were EIGHT delegations in YU Assembly. Kosovo had VETO power as ALL other constituents. Serbia did NOT HAVE a single function i Kosovo but Kosovo was represented DIRECTLY in federal bodies.
So there is no difference between Serbia and Kosovo (in regard to independence) since there no single international document saying that republic or autonomous province can be independent. Since after collapse of Yugoslavia, Constituents became independent, its normal that Kosovo did the same.
It is correct that Kosovo and Metohija had great political rights in YU since 1970s, thanks to Serbian generosity. But KiM was never republic, but rather part of the republic of Serbia.Or you want to say that Kosovo was not part of Serbia while in YU? 🙂 Under that constitution republics had right right to separate if all 6 republics agree, and under the terms mutually agreed. Croatia took away all of Serbian rights in Cro and declared that they are not obligated to respect YU laws and constitutions any-longer, but rather new CRO laws etc..
Little bit of history for those claiming Serbs have been “guilty” for all the troubles in Kosovo and Albanians “innocent, oppressed, and fighting for freedom”. http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/kosovo.htm
On the other hand, I admit that Albanians have been persistent through centuries and that finally Kosovo is almost completely cleansed of Serbs.
Faresha I suppose you’re not familiar wirh Nacertanije and Cubrilovic’s Memorandum “The expulsion of Albanians”. You for sure would know how Serbs forcibly cleansed the Morava valley of Albanias. From its birth Serbia wanted a clean state, getting rid of the other ethnicities. You might like to read Leo Freundlich’s “Albania’s Golgotha” or Trockie’s reports on Serbian and Montenegrin attrocities. Yes Albanias were persistent and stubborn on deciding to live and not die.
Oh yes this is so “true” that most of Albanians had police files, weren’t allowed to lock their homes at night etc. Do you know of certain Rankovic or the Turkish-Yugoslavian pakt to shipping most of Albanians to Turkey?
When the Albanians had it so good why the need for them to emigrate all over Europe, mainly Switzerland, Germany etc? The Kosovar Albanians had a saying during Yugoslavia: I need four children: one to stay home (Kosova) two for emigration(since there were no jobs home), and one for the Serbs (meaning he’d get killed- while serving in the army or arrested accused as irredentist etc.).
I can share with you a story of someone I know. He and other Albanians were being allegedly trasported to the army barracks. They were told to get down from the trucks to get a smoke. Then the officer brought out his machine gun, but luckily for them the gun got jammed and the 18 year old Albanians scattered. The guy I know and his cousin crossed the border to Greece and after spending months in camps there, moved to Australia. Just an episode that illustrates the “great” conditions of Albanians under the Serbs.
Want a story from Serbian side? I can tell you somethings very similar. Albanians are not perfect, Serbs are not perfect. Serbs are not innocent, but neither are Albanians!
I’m sure there are other stories. The memories in Balkans are long ones. In a book I read it said what caused the rift in Kosovo between Albanians and Sebs was the uprooting of Albanians of Morava Valley. They were ushered to Kosovo (or what remained of them after many died of cold and hunger).
You know, this is one of the biggest problem of today. We all have our own books, our own history, our own truth. And again – nothing is just black or white so it is the same with the truth – it is somewhere in between.And not to forget – I have a story about Serbian that retreated from Serbia to Greece during I World War. My grandfather told me the story. He was there. About killing exhausted, hunger and close to the death Serbian soldiers who were killed by Albanians just because they were Serbs, and Albanians were not part of the war at all! So, we all have stories. It would be nice to tell all stories that we have, sit at the table and talk like a human being. No one is innocent, and it is impossible in the conflict, like in ex Yugoslavia, that only one side is totally guilty for everything.You know, it would be nice if, for once, people in Balkan try to divide people in “good” and “bad” group and not by nationalities or religion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/opinion/global/selective-justice-for-the-balkans.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0
Fact is, in the last 60 years, the number of Albanians increased in Kosovo, while Serbs vanished. If I recall right that is called ethnic cleansing.
Alex,
I’m saying it was the right of the Republics to secede according to the Yugoslavian Constitution. Milosevic didn’t have any reason to use the force, halting the disintegration. It was legal for the Serbs using the Yugoslavian army to kill its own citizens. After that it was a domino effect and Milosevic needed to be stopped.
Yes, if all republic agree… That was written in the constitution. If you don’t believe me, it’s easy to check. So, not even Slovenia didn’t have right to secede from Yugoslavia. About Milosevic – he was the worst “thing” that could happen to Serbian people.
This is “democracy” that USA are selling everywhere and that mean in area of ex Yugoslavia!
Kosovo is Serbia, do you understand this or we must translate…
Yes in your dreams. Jut read Serbian prime minister Dacic about 40,000 Serbs less each year and you see the perspective whether even Serbia itself will be Serbia or something else, not to mention Kosovo!!!
Watch this movie and then comment about fantasy land …. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEYQ46gH08
I don’t know what so hard to understand and comprehend. Let’s hypothetically say, we have situation where federal state of Texas with Mexican majority wants to be independent of USA, then all of the Russians came sell them guns, made war going even dropped some bombs on US soil. After a decade or two, those same Russians are telling the Americans how healthy and normal is to be good neighbor to Texas, the runaway state, as strongest and the most powerful in the region…. I think, you get the point of the sarcastic US politics that Serbs are perceiving quite well. Milosevic was a dictator, Serbian politic is so fragile after 50 years of communism and certainly not mature enough to deal with the EU, Kosovo and inner reforms. Instead of helping them to democratize, leading both Kosovo and Serbia into borderless EU union, here we have completely different reality, it’s Fantasyland for all of us not only Balkans.
If the Texans decide to leave the Union because the federal government has withdrawn its statehood/autonomy, is imprisoning its political leaders for complaining about this, firing one group of citizens from their jobs based on autonomy, seizing land and handing it over to groups/churches associated with the favored group – hell, I’ll go down to Texas from Massachusetts and help them.
No idea where “based on autonomy” came from – was intended to be “based on ethnicity”.
Sorry for any momentary confusion.
We live in the world of nation-state. The only country that was built in the different way and accept something different is China. China is civilization state. China keep Tibet as a part of the country claiming that Tibet is a part of a great Chinese civilization. The world order (read USA and satellites) accept only nation-state status, but China is too powerful and they own half of the USA so they don’t dare to do anything. So, concerning that now there are majority of Albanians in Kosovo, I can accept that the world order is stronger in the moment and we have to obey the rules of the mighty one. But, if Kosovo became a nation state because majority of people there is changed (and that was one of the official reasons for approving independent Kosovo), than if majority in Texas is changed and majority want independent state, the principle should be the same. Isn’t it? Or, like many other, this rule can not be apply on the mighty one? Hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hypocrisy…Serbs did many awful things, but sometimes it sounds like they came from the hell itself…
Luxembourg? Are you being serious? Hungary has Transilvania and Vojvodina in its borders yes. Do they have any in the Northern border with Austria. Mexico is a different case, since those lands were purchased by US. How about the Southern border with Guatemala and Belize? I strongly doubt that. Romanticize th Albanian Cause??!!? We can’t agree on the flag? Really? Then you have no clue what you’re talking about then
Alex I have read many of Edith Durham’s books regardin that period. She mentioned the retreat of Serbian and Montenegrin forces through Albania. She said Serbian forces complained that Albanians didn’t feed them. She says: How can they expect hospitality when they torched and killed they way through the country? Albanians did honor to themselves by allowing them to retreat. We all know of the the secret Italian-Serbian pact of 1915 te divide Albania amongst them. Yes Albania wasn’t involved in WWI but hordes of armies passed through, devastating the fragile state. WWI was preceded by the Blakan Wars, and the memories of Sebian attrocities were stil fresh, especially of Luma people. Since Albania was a brand new state in a state of chaos, they didn’t have an army. The Serbian and Montenegrin armies butchered civilians. It’s well documented on Cranegie’s Endowment and the newspapers of the time.
A bit hysterical, this piece. But just three points:
1. Kosovo’s UDI was not in any way foreseen or consistent with UNSCR 1244. It was not sanctioned by the Security Council and, as the ICJ found, was declared outside the ambit of the UN mission in Kosovo.
2. Serbia’s claim to sovereignty over all of Kosovo is nothing new. Indeed the EU and US have been at pains to note they are not demanding that Serbia recognize Kosovo but have practical relations with it.
3. The question of the “legality” of Serbian local institutions in North Kosovo is tangential to the fact that there are in fact no Pristina institutions there and the northern Kosovo Serbs can not be induced to accept any through use of force.
Sorry, but this is a deliberate distortion. What the ICJ actually said is that Kosovo’s declaration of independence did not violate any thing in international law, including UNSCR 1244. Moreover to assert that because the EU and US have not insisted that Serbia recognize Kosovo (a policy of tolerance and patience towards Serbia’s difficulties in accepting the new reality) they somehow also accept Serbia’s long standing claim over Kosovo is sheer mendacity. Both the EZu and the U.S. Have been more than clear that they reject such claims. Finally, there are indeed Kosovo institutions in the North. The fact that they are weak and struggle is directly related to the efforts by Belgrade to assert it’s own authority, the use of fear and violence by those acting in the name of Serbia to intimidate the populace and the complicity of the UN, especially during Mr. Galluci’s time, in allowing this state of affairs to continue.
I’ll let folks read the relevant documents and decide for themselves what the ICJ and UNSCR 1244 say. And what the US and EU believe about Kosovo independence has not changed Serbia’s position, at least not yet.
However, I will note that it was never UNMIK’s job – or my job as Regional Representative – to force Pristina’s rule on the Kosovo Serb majority north of the Ibar that rejected it. Those Serbs have their own local institutions to which they grant exclusive legitimacy. (Belgrade didn’t force this on them.) UN peacekeeping is not, and never was, about forcing political agendas of one side on the other.
UNMIK did the job declaring such “institutions” in Kosovo. By the way, since you mention often UN SC R1244, by which paragraph of that resolution Serbia is allowed to have “institutions” in Kosovo??
Indeed Belgrade did not force Serbs to accept its illegal institutions in Kosovo but as illegal ones such “institutions” must be removed.
@Gerard,
1. Its NOT UNMIK to decide about Kosovo status but to “facilitate political process based on Ramboiullet Accords” according to UN SC R 1244. ICJ found that Declaration of independence was LEAGL and did not violate neither general international law nor UN SC R 1244.
2. Serbia may claim sovereignty over Kosovo but this just a wish of that state.
3. I should remind you that UNMIK representative CLEARLY declared that “holding of local election of Serbia in Kosovo is VIOLATION of UN SC R 1244” hence, “institutions” created from such “elections” are TOTALLY ILLEGAL according to UN SC R 1244 and Kosovo Constitution.
Yes, let them read. Especially paragraph 100 of the ICJ opinion, which says it was the clear intent of 1244 to end Serbian administrative authority over the territory of Kosovo. You are correct, the positions of the EU and US have not changed Serbia’s position. Which is a long way from your initial assertion that the EU and US somehow accept Serbia’s position. As for UAM’s supposed neutrality (even as it knowingly employed representatives of the Serbian state in violation of 1244), I would submit that your flatulent acceptance of Belgrade’s violent assertion of it’s authority was itsef both a violation of supposed neutrality, and worse, a supine acceptance of non-democratic means in the name of supposed democracy.
Unilateral assertions by Pristina and friends aside, the UNSC did not end the 1244 mandate and that still makes Kosovo a matter for peacekeeping.
As to what is legal or not, anyone can declare Pristina institutions or local Kosovo Serb ones illegal or “legal” depending on the axe they wish to grind. What ultimately makes legitimacy is the will of the people. The Albanian majority of Kosovo is what makes their institutions legitimate south of the Ibar. North of the Ibar, their institutions have no legitimacy because they are rejected by the majority of that population. To force Serbs born in the north Kosovo part of Serbia to leave “their country” and submit to institutions declared south of the Ibar would be illegitimate. It has not worked so far and is unlikely to work no matter how much those who support Pristina’s claim huff and puff.
Once again you attempt to shift the grounds of your argument. Now it’s “anyone” declaring things legal or illegal. In fact, it’s the ICJ which found Serbian institutions in Kosovo to be a violation of 1244, thus illegaln(inan opinion sought by Jeremic and Belgrade, let us not forget). As for the assertion that “the majority” of Serbs north of the Ibar reject Kosovo’s institutions, it is probably accurate. However, it is also probably true that a meaningful minority would accept them if afforded the opportunity. Just as in the south of Kosovo, and as evidenced by the thousands who have taken advantagevof the services offered by Kosovo offices iNorth Mitovica. We don’t know what “the majority” would do because Belgrade uses its thugs and surrogates to keep “the majority” intimidated and silent.
Kosovo Serbs in the south had no choice but to “accept” or leave, especially after the internationals allowed Kosovo police and officials to shut off their electricity and turn off their phones. How many will stay over time in the face of continued violence against them remains to be seen. But it is too early to claim that the “multi-ethnic Kosova” is working even south of the Ibar.
Whatever number of north Mitrovica inhabitants accept handouts from Pristina’s Potemkin office there indicates nothing except people will generally use any apples that fall off the tree. And the myth that is it merely “thugs” or Belgrade that keeps the majority from accepting the beneficence of Pristina is probably not believed even by those Kosovo Albanians not trying to sell that “multi-ethnic” myth.
The multiethnic Kosovo is just a matter of level of acceptance of Kosovo authorities from Serbs. Serbs in the south “have no choice” hence they accept Pristina!! But what is the choice for Kosovo northerners??
If you ask Hungarians in Vojvodina they would choose, for sure, being part of Hungary. If you ask Bosniacs in Sandjak, for sure, would rather be part of B&H or even independent but who cares for them!! Millions of people can ask something but Gerard@Co will deny their rights and wishes. Important is just pleasing wishes of northern Serbs an that in very aggressive way finding even very strange “arguments” such as “country of birth”!!!!
Gerard, don’t manipulate things. Not anyone but UN Representative in Kosovo had official statement in which CLEARLY stated that so called “local elections of Serbia in Kosovo” are in VIOLATION of UN SC R 1244 hence ALL Serbian “institutions” from such “elections” are ILLEGAL.
“What ultimately makes legitimacy is the will of the people” but which people? So you want to say that 40K of Serbs in northern Kosovo have their will and that must be respected??
OK, but lets see first how Serbia respects the will of the people in Vojvodina for 400k of Hungarians, then the will of the people of 200K of Bosniaks in Sandjak (southern Serbia) and the will of the people of more than 100K of Albanians in southern Serbia.
Why one should respect “the will of the people” for a smaller group while denying that will for much bigger group??? What kind of justice is this???
“To force Serbs born in the north Kosovo part of Serbia to leave “their country” and submit to institutions declared south of the Ibar would be illegitimate.”
This is indeed masterpiece of manipulations. Serbs in south of Ibar were even stronger in rejecting Pristina’s rule but accepted that even though had much more reason than northerners not to do so. Northerners, in other side, do reject Pristina because they are supported to do so. Once they realize that their dream ended, they will do the same as their compatriots in the south.
I think that nobody should give up on dreams just like that. For example, as much as I know, resolution SC 1244 is still valid. And, there’s one interesting part of it in Annex 2:
6. After withdrawal, an agreed number of Yugoslav and Serbian personnel will be permitted to return to perform the following functions:
– Liaison with the international civil mission and the international
security presence;
– Marking/clearing minefields;
– Maintaining a presence at Serb patrimonial sites;
– Maintaining a presence at key border crossings.
As far as I know, that never happened. And, by the way, you rejected Serbian rule in Kosovo and you fought for independent state, and you wrested one. So, it was perfectly ok for you to do so and it is perfectly illegal for others to ask the same thing???? What would you do if Serbs in north of Kosovo start to build something similar like UCK (KLA) that was proclaimed to be terrorist organization before you became “friends” with Americans? Would you do the same thing that Serbian government did? Fight with terrorists? Or you would allow terrorist to make there own state on the northern Kosovo?
Alex, you may continue dreaming as long as you wish. Nobody will stop you. As for UN SC R 1244 I urge you reading carefully paragraph 9 of that resolution:
“9. Decides that the responsibilities of the international security presence to be deployed and acting in Kosovo will include:
a) Deterring renewed hostilities, maintaining and where necessary enforcing a ceasefire, and ensuring the withdrawal and PREVENTING the return into Kosovo of Federal and Republic military, police and paramilitary forces”
As you can see NATO must PREVENT any attempt of Serbian forces to return into Kosovo.
As for “interesting part” of Anex 2 you should read it CAREFULLY and take note about wording “AGREED” number that will be “PERMITTED”. Also take note that apart of agreement with NATO and getting PERMISSION, such personnel is limited into hundreds and not thousands.
As we know NATO never gave PERMISSION for that neither will it do so in future. Who has claims on that may address the issue at UNSC.
As for Serbs in the north they may start “building” something similar to KLA if Kosovo government does to northerners even 10% (not 100%) of what Milosevic regime did to Albanians such as mass killing of more than 10K of Albanians, massacres, raping of thousands of women, destroying and burning of hundreds of thousands of houses, expelling 800K of Albanians and confiscating their personal identity documents.
wow, wow, wow….. It’s just a matter of interpretation… It can be interpreted in one way or another. It is not important are we talking about hundreds or thousands of Serbian soldiers or policeman. They NEVER came back to Kosovo because NATO never allowed it. And NATO is stronger now. Now… We will see what will happen in the future.
About atrocities…Well, we were forced to get used that ONLY Serbs did that. And Albanians are innocent??? Now, you can dream on…….Of course, again, I don’t want to defend anyone who committed war crimes. But, STOP blaming only Serbs. You know, I live in foreign land. They know much more than anybody can imagine and slowly lies of mass-media are being discovered. And, one more time – Serbs are not innocent, but neither are Albanians!
No, its not a matter of interpretations but its CLEARLY written in UN SC R 1244. Whatever happens with NATO its clear that those living in Kosovo will strongly defend their country, much stronger than those who see Kosovo on TV.
Why the threat of further ethnic conflict elsewhere whenever the question of forcing northern Kosovo Serbs to leave the country of their birth comes up? The groups you mention elsewhere are still in the countries of their birth. No one is using force to make them recognize a separation as Pristina has done with the Serbs north of the Ibar.
B.S.
Imagine the horror: Serbs in the south had to pay for using utilities. What a violation of their human rights! Why cant they live for free, just like…well, no one, anywhere. Actually, what a perfect statement of the twisted logic you perpetuated when working for UNMIK.
As for the “myth” of thugs, ask the MP who was shot in the leg by known Serb assailants. Ask the policemen who have had hand grenades thrown in their yards. Ask anyone, except your pet, paid Belgrade UAM employs (finally jobless, or at least only drawing a Belgrade salary,as the UN’s own Potemkin institution has been shut down).
http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/europe/balkans/kosovo/218-setting-kosovo-free-remaining-challenges.aspx
They almost didn’t mentioned northern Kosovo… But, maybe I didn’t read it right.
Read this: U.S. ambassador: No trade in Kosovo territory
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=12&dd=27&nav_id=83856
US ambassador is saying exactly the same things I am writing here.
Oh, yes… I saw that. Hypocrisy again… Americans want to close the box? No changing borders on Balkan? But, they opened the box!!!!!
Read this too… http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2012&mm=12&dd=27&nav_category=640&nav_id=672693
What kind of “hypocrisy”?? Who “opened the box”. UN member collapsed because of Serbian hegemony, entities of that state became independent, This is fair enough.
As for link you gave, indeed I don’t know in which planet people like him live? Does he understand at all how UN SC functions?? I mean does he know how, in practical way, he or his government could address the Kosovo issue at UN Security Council??
Again, let’s be honest. Anyone with a little brain is aware that Serbia doesn’t need 2,5 millions of voters Albanians origin. That would be disaster for Serbia. Another thing – there’s a big problem with mafia in Kosovo. Sex, weapons and drug trafficking, as much as corruption are something that characterized Kosovo. On the other hand, it pisses me off the number of “patriots” on Serbian side in northern Kosovo who trade with there “patriotism”. In that field, cooperation between Serbs and Albanians are going smoothly. Ironic, isn’t it? There’s one thing that is intolerable. Your presenting Albanians as a complete and only victims of everything that happened. It is just not true. And people around the world started to get that. Just like Albanians have Daniel Serwer, Serbs are represented with some people who tell different story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QolJ7c70S8Q&fb_source=message – Italian story; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeRXLw4nUhI&feature=relmfu – German Documentary about the Lie’s of Western Officials during the NATO Aggression against Serbia in 1999. How the Western constructed Lies about slaughter of Albanians by the Serbian Security Forces; http://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-s-war-against-yugoslavia-was-based-on-lies – to mention just some of them. You have Kosovo up to the some point. As far as I concern, you can have it completely. There’s just one more thing – Albanians will not have Kosovo on the plate!
@Alex,
In regard to your last comment let me give you some important facts. You speak of corruption in Kosovo but you forget the immense level of corruption in Serbia. Just to remind you: “patriotic stealing” of more than 2 billion euro, Agrobanka with more than 300 million EUR stolen, more than 300 million euro stolen in drugs etc. Only three corrupt affairs and almost 3 billion euros stolen by corrupt people in Serbia. And you have many others such as NIS, Kollubara, RTB Bor, Jugoremedija, Azotara and many other billions of euros stolen.
Who can mention corruption in Kosovo at such a level?? We have in Kosovo a corrupt affair of 1.4 million euros in the ministry of interior but this is nothing comparing to hundreds of millions or billions of stolen euros in Serbia.
As for killed people in Kosovo you may “believe” a different story but there is confirmation of more than 10,000 Albanians killed by Serbian forces, thousands of raped Albanian women, more than 200,000 burned and destroyed Albanian houses and more than 800,000 Albanians expelled by Serbian forces to Albania and Macedonia. All these figures are PROVEN ones from many sources like UN, OSCE many international NGOs etc. So people may film many documentaries and fabricate whatever they wish but figures I mentioned you can’t deny. All these allegations were PROVEN at Hague as well even from Serbian officials.
Just… it is bitter that all those organization never counted Serbian victims. The first thing that I wanted to send you was a document of Serbian government about official numbers of killed and missing Serbs from Kosovo. Then I gave up. Numbers are not important. Those were people on both sides. They had families, wishes for a better future, dreams about better world… They’re all gone now. Preaching about how many Serbs or Albanians were killed and trying to prove who is more and who is less guilty, will not make them return. That is terrible fact. That is disaster. So, I gave up on proving who is right or wrong. But, I still thing that there were no innocent and that it is time to settle down and start talk like a decent human being. It is time that reasonable and responsible people on both sides solve the problem. And to live in peace. Best wishes and Happy New Year.
Aleksandra
And to you, too, Aleksandra, best wishes for 2013!
Aleksandra,
Now you are writing correctly. Nevertheless, there was not my intention to prove who is more guilty but just to remind you that dealing with such things will send us nowhere.
And yes, you are absolutely right saying that “it is time to settle down and start talk like a decent human being.” I fully agree on that. Meanwhile let focus on finding solutions rather then blaming each other.
Happy New Year to you, too.
@Alex,
What Serbs did in Kosovo, was government sponsored. There is always a reaction to any action. I don’t know how many reports on mass graves were true, but I know of one chilling fact, the extermination of Adem Jashari’s family, when the police mortared his house with women and children iside, burning them alive. There were around 50 all together. Would that constitute a mass grave (rabble)? There was an italian journalist (can’t think of his name right now), that lived with the Albanians at the time of terror and he described in detail what he saw.
I am a journalist… Ok, I used to be until I got married and left Serbia. In 2007 Balkan journalists visited some institutions of the EU. We had opportunity to talk with Jelko Kacin and Doris Pak. I remembered that I asked Mr. Kacin what could happen if the Albanians from the south of Serbia ask the same like Albanians from Kosovo. He was very polite and explained that something like that is impossible! Later, since he knew a friend of mine, he sent me a message to keep my mouth shut and never mention that again. In the light of what is happening now in the south of Serbia, I remember Mr. Kacin very often.
I’m sorry… I’m very tolerant and aware of everything that happened, but what is happening now in Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvedja is not acceptable! Jonuz Musliu and Albanians cannot build the monument to terrorists and keep the Albanian flag in the middle of another country. I know that in Denmark, where I live, it’s a crime. You can use only Danebrog, the national flag, and that’s it! The excuse of bad living standards can not work in this situation. I know that there are many other places with the same conditions. Kursumlija, for example. Serbs live there. So, what is this? Albanians think that they can get one more piece of Serbian territory, since Serbs were proclaimed to be the devils and butchers and the worst thing that could happen to this world??? It’s an opportunity to make “United Albanian state”, as Sali Berisha said recently, a little bigger? Why do Albanians do this? You want another war and then you will run to the Americans and cry for help??? Anyone to explain?
Alex (Aleksandra) as for flags let me recall you that in Kosovo municipality of Strpce, there is Serbian flag waving in the front of municipal building!! To be more strange, inside the building seats the president (Serbian man Bratislav Nikolic) with stamps of Republic of Kosovo (since he is elected in Kosovo elections) and outside is Serbian flag but not that of Kosovo. So what do you think about tolerance of Kosovo institutions in this regard??
Happy New Year Alexandra! Happy New Year to all!
@Gerard,
How about the rights of Albanians who live in North Mitrovica? It was you who stopped them from returning to their homes, wan’t it? I suppose your “righteousness” is one way street.
Hi Alex,
I hope you enjoyed the Holidays!
I’m not aware what you are referring to, when you say: Building a monument to a terrorist.
Serbs wave Serbian flags in Kosovo, Greek minorities wave Greek flags in Albania, and nothing happens to them. It’s not only the Albanians in Southern Serbia.
I have read a lot of history books regarding the Balkan wars and of the undoing of the Ottoman Empire. Many historians agreed that the butchering of Albanian territories was a receipe for explosion to undo the wrong doing of Great Powers. You know that Serbs have had always a natural ally in Russia, and the Albanians never had such a luxury. When you have someone sitting on the table with the big boys, you do have the upper hand. Serbia had the backing of England and France as well, and took more than her fair share. Albania was deprived of her most resourceful lands and as Wadham Peacock says: They (Great Powers) wanted to kill the baby (Albania) on the crib, meaning they created an Albanian state per se, but didn’t expect it to survive, while the neighbors were sharpening their knifes with their apetite growing daily.
I wouldn’t pay much attention to what Berisha says. He’s a delirant ex-communist.
Without any allies in Europe, Albanians have seen US as their ally, since 1920 when President Wilson, kept the state of Albania alive.
I do enjoy debating with cool headed and civil people. I’m interested on talking about Denmark and the social aspect. This is off the topic and we can chat privately if you’d like.
Hi Albo,
First I would like to apologize for the tone of my previous comment. Well, it’s Balkan blood and no one who was born there is not immune.
Second, no one in one country wave flag of another country just like that. I know (I live here) that it is not allowed to wave the Serbian or Albanian flag in Denmark. It is allowed if it is an embassy, some gathering or something like that. That means wave flag couple of hours and move it away! It is not allowed for me to wave Serbian flag in front of my house (Danes do the same thing like American – wave flags in almost every garden). So, Albanians from the south can’t wave Albanian flag. I’m sorry, but it is still south of Serbia and not Albania.
Third, I’m also sorry that Albanians didn’t have much luck with the history in previous years. Well, one can say the same for Serbia. Someone else made decisions and in 1878. and 1912. and 1945. and after that. So, no use of complaints.
Ok, maybe it is possible not to accept what Berisha says. He’s, maybe, a delirant ex-communist. But, everybody in Balkan are like him! In every country! What about the new story? I think the name is “Red-black coalition”… Story about federation of all “Albanians states”? Some guy – Spahiu, I think it’s his name?
It’s time to calm down and work together to become member of EU because this is the only way out for the whole region. If the “show government” of Serbia is capable for that.
We can discuss about Denmark anytime…It is a interesting country… Surprisingly, in a sense of nationalism, not too different than nations from Balkan area.
http://cphpost.dk/news/national/foreign-flags-may-soon-wave-proudly I’d never heard of this prohibition, which I think is unusual in democratic countries. Certainly nothing like it exists in the United States, where the flags of other countries are commonly displayed on houses.
Hi Alex,
By the way my name is Ilir, Albo is my nickname.
I understand, don’t worry. We are passionate people and tend to be that way.
I’m not sure, what the law in Serbia is, regarding the flag, but I live in US, and here you can have any flag on your front yard as long as you have the American flag exposed as well. I believe the American flag has to be higher.
Regarding Albanian history I have read a lot and exclusively foreign authors. I do like to get a neutral opinion and you never get that reading your own authors. All of them reached the same conclusion in regards to the borders drawn in 1913. It was an unjust decision leaving out of the newly created state of Albania, more than half of it’s population and territories. They say the question of Near East is postponed to a later date. And most of the authors are British, one of the allies of Serbia and Greece. Edith Durham wrote many books covering the situation in the region. She was an expert on the Balkan affairs.
Everyone uses nationalist rhetorics to gain political capital. Spahiu wants to create a Party and have is electoral followers. It’s all a game. At the end the small countries are just pawns of the Great Powers, nothing has changed.
You truly believe that if Spahiu wants to change the borders, it will happen? Others decide about such cardinal things. It’s in the Northwestern Hemisphere capitals where the decisions are taken.
Now regarding Denmark, I was reading a book regarding the demographics in Scandinavian countries. It said the immigrants, mostly from Islamic countries make up only 5% of Denmark’s population but collect 40% of the wellfare. The Danes, Sweeds and Norwegians trie to adjust to the new culture instead of the other way around. Most of these people find spouses from their native countries and don’t integrate. I’m very interested to talk to someone who has first hand knowledge about these issues.
If you’d like we can talk through private email.
Have a nice evening!
Ilir
hi Ilir,
That was my point. You can not just like that wave the flag that you want. This is situation in Denmark – from danish ministry for justice: http://www.justitsministeriet.dk/udenlandske-flag. It’s in danish but you can use Google. If the one who put Albanian flag there, put a Serbian too, there would be no problem. If you follow B92, you could see a lot of comments by people who think the same.
How about Facebook? I’m already friend with Mr. Serwer with whom I often disagree, but whom I respect very much. If it’s ok, here’s the link:
http://www.facebook.com/aleksandra.jensenexpribakovic. We can be FB friends and then talk about Denmark a lot…
Best regards
Alex